Industry Forward – Chris Abell

• November 14, 2018
• John Richter

Chris always liked doing audit and tax work for doctors, but she had a revelation when someone asked her if she understood what a physician does and how one gets paid. This led to a monumental mindset shift: She realized she needed to genuinely know these doctors if she truly wanted to help them. Sound familiar? That’s why industry specialization is at the heart of the CLA Promise. And it’s why today our health care specialists include actual health care advice along with financial services. Learn from Chris’s groundbreaking journey in this edition of Industry Forward.

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Transcript

Chris always liked doing audit and tax work for doctors, but she had a revelation when someone asked her if she understood what a physician does and how one gets paid. This led to a monumental mindset shift: She realized she needed to genuinely know these doctors if she truly wanted to help them. Sound familiar? That’s why industry specialization is at the heart of the CLA Promise. And it’s why today our health care specialists include actual health care advice along with financial services. Learn from Chris’s groundbreaking journey in this edition of Industry Forward.

[00:00:04]

Jeff Vrieze: Chris always liked doing audit and tax work for doctors, but she had a revelation when someone asked her if she understood what a physician does and how one gets paid. This led to a monumental mind shift. She realized she needed to generally know these doctors if she truly wanted to help them. Sound familiar? That’s why industry specialization is at the heart of this CLA promise. And that is why today our health care specialists include actual health care advice along with services.

Learn from Chris’s groundbreaking journey in this edition of Industry Forward.

MUSIC

[00:00:53]

Hello, CLA family. Welcome to Industry Forward, a podcast designed to tell the stories behind the CLA promise. When the CLA promise comes alive, we create opportunities and live the culture. A culture that promotes entrepreneurs, owners, leaders. At the center of the CLA promise is our desire and commitment to know you and to help you. Behind the CLA promise are a set of core beliefs.

[00:01:25]

Two of them drive the strategic advantage of industry specialization, that belief that specialization enables us to know our clients better so that we can help them. A belief in helping versus selling. That’s industry specialization at CLA, a belief that if we specialize, we’ll be able to get to know our clients better and help them more fully. If we do it effectively, we drive growth. Quick reminder, growth is not something we do. Growth is the result of doing the right things. So to help us understand his more, we’ve invited Chris Abell to the microphone.

[00:02:03]

Chris is the managing principal of our physicians and cleanse group. She’s based in Phoenix, moved from Minneapolis, and has been active in our healthcare group for a great number of years. So, Chris, let’s start with your journey. It’s been one of interest and intrigue. Share a little bit.

[00:02:24]

Chris: It has been an interesting story, and actually I’ve been with CLA for about 11 years. I started my career over 30 years ago, so for those of you who weren’t even born, I was still doing this. But it started in St. Louis, actually, and I worked at a small firm. I was a generalist, doing mainly tax and audit or assurance work. I had several clients in various industries, such as restaurants and convents and senior living and physician practices.

[00:02:55]

And then I moved to Minneapolis in 2000 for a various number of reasons, family reasons mainly, and I started at a larger local firm here that worked a lot with physician practices. And that’s where I truly found my passion in physician practices and learned about MinnesotaCare Tax, which was something brand-new to me, coming from Missouri.

From there, I had a couple of principals here in the Minneapolis office give me a call one day and said, “Hey, Chris, we’re hearing you’re doing a lot of great things in the physician community. We’d like to talk with you.” And so I had that conversation with them, and they offered me a job, and I actually said no. And a year later, I called them back and I said, “Is that offer still open?” And they said, “Yes, it’s still open, but this is the last time that it’ll be open.” Here in Minneapolis, I learned a ton of things, and not just the audit and assurance and tax work. There was a different culture here when I started.

It was more about, do you know what a physician does? Do you know how a physician gets paid? And it was, you needed to know that before you could really work with physicians. So that was a whole different culture than what I was used to in the last couple of CPA firms that I’d worked at. So that started my journey, and then as I started to learn more and more about physicians, one of the things I was interested in was the mergers and acquisitions between hospitals and physician groups.

[00:04:33]

And with that, I asked if could work with Greg Hart, ’cause Greg was doing a lot of that work at the time, and so I worked with him for about a year. And it started very slowly with, “Chris, can you crunch the numbers on this?” And, “Why would a physician group want to join this particular health care system or hospital?” But the biggest piece is he said, “You’re coming with me to all the meetings.”

So I started sort of as a background person, and as I gained my confidence and as Greg realized, “You know, hey, I need Chris to actually lead part of this and I want her to lead part of this,” is that we were able to go ahead and talk together and go through those negotiations, and that was one of the greatest years of learning that I could have ever asked for. And with that, you learn a lot about the emotions that take place as well as the financial side. So that was pretty cool, and enjoyed that piece it.

And then I raised my hand and said, “Hey, I’d like to join our Phoenix office with Chad Kunze and start a healthcare practice in Phoenix.” And so you as well as everybody else agreed to it and said, “Yes, let’s go ahead and make that happen.” So that’s how I ended up in Phoenix four years ago, and about two years ago Jeff Vrieze asked me if I would become head of our healthcare team in regard to physicians and dental practices. So that’s my journey.

[00:06:05]

John: What an amazing story. Lots and lots of turns along the way, and of course, for me, it spawns all kinds of questions, so I’m gonna try to unpack this a little bit. The first one I have to unpack is how other firms view industry specialization differently. You tossed that in almost as a little bit of a nugget here, where you said you had to learn something different and express it differently. Do you mind explaining that a little bit and maybe start with the mindset of another firm? ‘Cause you experienced several before you got here. And now how we view industry at CLA.

[00:06:39]

Chris: So the mindset with the very first firm, actually the first two firms in St. Louis that I worked for, it was truly just you’re assurance or you’re tax or you’re a generalist and you better know both because a client is gonna want to know that. When I moved to Minnesota, that was the first time I had heard of industry specialization, and then working more with the physician practices and using the knowledge that I had learned in St. Louis.

And then also too is from a specialty standpoint, is each specialty is very different. And it’s one of those, we sit down and we talk about it sometimes and we say, you know, when you’re working with an OB-GYN group, it’s gonna take them a lot longer to make a decision than, for example, an emergency department group. You know, an emergency department group or a surgery group has to make quick decisions.

[00:07:26]

So knowing an understanding how those groups work in their particular ways was huge and something new to me that I had never learned in the past.

[00:07:36]

John: So sometimes I describe industry specialization at another firm as being an auditor or a tax specialist who happens to do work for a lot of physicians.

[00:07:45]

Chris: Exactly.

[00:07:46]

John: So therefore, I know the business and how to audit them really effectively.

[00:07:51]

Chris: Right.

[00:07:52]

John: What you just described though was we asked you to become a healthcare professional, understand the ins and the outs of the business, and you happen to do audits and tax work. Just like others in the healthcare profession maybe happen to be nurses or physicians. That’s a pretty distinct difference. Could you comment on the value proposition? How did the value proposition change when you shifted your mindset from a client perspective?

[00:08:19]

Chris: I’d say the main reason why is because now we knew what the pain points were of these particular physician practices, whether it was the CEO, the CFO or the actual physicians. It was one of those, we knew those pain points, and we could directly talk about those pain points as opposed to just, “Oh, and here’s your audit. You had income this year. Your receivables are where they are, et cetera, et cetera.”

[00:08:44]

Or, “Here’s your tax return. We got you down to–if you’re a C corporation for a physician group, we got you down to zero, so you don’t pay any tax.” That was the typical mindset of those other firms. Whereas this firm was, “What are the pain points that these people live on a day-to-day basis, and how can we make it better for them?”

[00:09:02]

John: Hmm, that sounds like just simply living the CLA promise by getting to know them so much more. But why healthcare? Was it just a job or is there something more behind it?

[00:09:13]

Chris: A couple of things, is my sister is a physician and is ten years older than me. So growing up it was–I was the afterthought in the house. And so this was a way for my sister and I to actually become closer because I actually started to understand more of her world, and she understood a little bit of mine. You know, I’d say the second reason why is you look at physicians, and a lot of people say, “Oh, you know, physicians are very difficult clients.” You know, they’re very demanding.

They want you to be at their whimsy and at their beck and call. It’s challenging for them. Most of the physicians in their particular specialties deal with life and death situations on a day-to-day basis. If I can take away that financial stress and, you know, some of those other healthcare issues that come up, like reimbursement. And Obamacare, what was gonna happen with that? That was a fear for everyone several years ago.

You know, and it’s one of those, if I can help them with those fears and I can take fears away so that they can concentrate on their patients, that’s my ultimate goal for them.

[00:10:23]

John: You know, you’re touching on a really interesting topic, one that we are watching as a firm really close, and that this total transformation of healthcare, rethinking healthcare in America, reimagining. There is a lot of angst and worry, because we’re working our way through that. There’s a great part of our firm that serves physicians, dentists, clinics that are not healthcare specialized. What advice might you have for them?

[00:10:51]

Chris: And I call those the 45 percenters, and the reason–

[00:10:54]

John: Why do you do that?

[00:10:55]

Chris: I knew you were gonna ask that. The reason why I call them the 45 percenters is there is 45% of our healthcare revenue, more importantly from a physician perspective, our physician and clinic revenue is coming from non-healthcare professionals. It sorta kinda comes automatically as, you know, if you’re working with an office and all of a sudden you say, “Fred down the hallway has a couple of physician practices.” “Oh, you know, what does Fred do for them?” “Oh, well, he does their taxes, or there’s a compilation for the bank,” things like that.

[00:11:29]

John: ‘Cause that’s all the client wants.

[00:11:30]

Chris: ‘Cause that’s all they want, exactly. And, you know, so for those 45 percenters out there, what I’m saying is there is so much happening in healthcare today and so many things that not only the physicians but the CEOs, the CFOs, the administrators, the business office managers, there is a ton of things happening that they would love to just raise their hand and say, “Can you help?”

[00:11:54]

Can I go to one professional services firm to help me with not only the financial side but the healthcare, the clinical side? And what I’m saying is we can come alongside you. We don’t want to take that relationship away. I understand relationships with physicians. You know I’ve been to some physicians’ children’s baptisms and weddings, you know? It’s just one of those, you have that relationship. So we don’t want to take that relationship away. What we want to do is coming alongside you.

[00:12:25]

Sure, go ahead, have that relationship, but it’s one of those, “Hey, Chris–” you know, or whoever it maybe is–“We have a dermatology group, for example, that has some questions about benchmarking and what should I be looking for? And how can you help me?” If you have a tax return that all of a sudden has R&D tax credits, you’re gonna bring in our R&D tax specialist to help with that piece of it.

[00:12:50]

Well, this is something we can do with the 45 percenters, is we can be that healthcare expertise that can help these people, help the client through whatever they may be going through at the time.

[00:13:03]

John: Yeah, yeah, I have to believe that with the deep industry expertise we have in healthcare, that there’s probably an expectation on the part of the clients that we do this. So my encouragement to anyone listening is this isn’t an option. Let’s come alongside, ’cause it’s a tumultuous, challenging environment that they live in. So, Chris, you’ve become deeply industry specialized. There’s many who are listening to this podcast thinking about becoming industry specialized. A number of them have chosen healthcare.

[00:13:38]

Chris: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:39]

John: Others have chosen other industries, but what advice might you have? And maybe use your own personal journey on how you became so deeply specialized on their behalf.

[00:13:50]

Chris: You know, I guess probably the biggest thing I would say is follow your passion. If you are not passionate about whether it’s physicians or, let’s even go beyond healthcare, or construction or whatever it may be, whatever industry that it is, you’re not gonna enjoy your work. And the thing is we spend so much time here and we spend so much time together that if you’re not passionate about it, the clients are gonna see through you and realize that you are not passionate about this.

[00:14:22]

So I would say that would be my number one thing, is find something that you’re passionate about that you want to also help evolve and also assist in making things better for that client and for the industry as a whole. You know, we look at it as, in healthcare one of our goals is to be the thought leaders of healthcare, and not just thought leaders of our clients and for our clients, but thought leaders of the healthcare industry across the country.

[00:14:51]

In that respect, we all have a passion in regards to, how can we make healthcare better? And it’s getting to the table and it’s having those conversations, whether it’s with the physicians or the CEOs or even other referral sources, such as bankers and attorneys, that also focus on healthcare. And to have that connection with all those people and knowing that we’re trying to make a difference and that we will make a difference, that’s what gets me excited and gets me up every morning.

[00:15:21]

John: You know, I heard it once said that our people really just want two things. They want to do work that matters and they want to enjoy what they do, and that’s in effect what you just said. So one last question for you, and it’s really one of advice. Listening to this is somebody with one or two or three years of experience, and they’re exploring this thing called industry specialization and looking forward. What advice do you have for them at this point in their career?

[00:15:52]

Chris: And I’ve seen this in the Phoenix office as we’ve grown our healthcare team in Phoenix is, first of all, be inquisitive. Don’t just take the answer of, “Well, that’s just the way we’ve done it last year.” Ask the question why. Why are we doing this? That would be one of the things I would say. The other thing is that it’s not gonna come overnight, but know if you’ve raised your hand and you’ve said, “Hey, I want to try X, Y or Z,” know that we’re working on it in the background.

[00:16:25]

We’re gonna keep you apprised of what’s happening, but it’s a matter of shifting schedules and things like that so that we can get you to where you want to be, what you want to try. We’re actually doing that with our physician group this summer and fall with some of our associates and seniors are gonna be working with our consultants this year and learning that side of it as opposed to, once again, just the tax and the assurance side, so that they can learn more about what does a physician group go through every day.

[00:16:58]

So in that respect, is know that we’re gonna be coming alongside you and helping you get to where you wanna be. It just isn’t gonna happen overnight.

John: Mmm, thank you. And thanks for coming to the microphone and telling us your story. It’s inspiring. It’s interesting. And congratulations on where you’ve taken it, and frankly I’m looking forward to what you’re gonna accomplish in the years to come. It’s a big and daunting task. And so, CLA, remember, industry specialization is not about joining a group. It’s not about just declaring and not changing activity. It’s about getting started, learning. I love the term inquisitive. Intellectually curious.

That’s what industry specialization is about, and done well, it really provides a platform for us to get to know our clients that much better so that we can help them. And when we do that, we create the opportunities that drive us. Thank you. Have a great day, CLA family.

 

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