Career Transition Reflections with Dudley Ryan
CEO Denny Schleper spends time with long-time principal Dudley Ryan who is transitioning to retirement after over 20 years with CLA. He shares his experiences and advice on working with clients and living the CLA Promise.
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CEO Denny Schleper spends time with long-time principal Dudley Ryan who is transitioning to retirement after over 20 years with CLA. He shares his experiences and advice on working with clients and living the CLA Promise.
[00:00:05]
Announcer: Welcome to “Own the Promise,” a CLA podcast created to share what guides every decision we make in every relationship we cultivate.
[00:00:18]
Denny: Hello, CLA family. This is Denny Schleper. I had an opportunity to be in the Minneapolis office this week, and I ran into Dudley Ryan, one of our long-time partners within the firm, and I thought it was a great opportunity as we were sitting down and discussing where he’s at, not only in his life, but his career with CLA, to maybe share some of the thoughts that he’s had over his career and most recently, as he’s actually going to be retiring at the end of 2018, and I thought it would be a great opportunity to pick his brain.
What has he learned over the years that might help all of us who are still here at CLA, and really those of us that might be close to the transition stage that Dudley is at as well as, perhaps, those of you that are in the beginning stages of building your careers, hopefully, here at CLA as you continue? So, Dudley, welcome. What I’d like to do, Dudley, just to give a opportunity for our people to know a little bit more about you, if you would just briefly give a little bit of your history with the firm just so that they could have that perspective as we carry forward.
[00:01:32]
Dudley: Thanks, Denny. So I started with the firm in 1985. At the time, I was practicing law, and the firm came to me and said, “We need somebody to head the firm’s tax practice. We have three partners that don’t want to do the administrative part of the practice.” So my first job was a manager with three partners and ten other people reporting to me at CLA. I did that for about 15 years, and what happened is is our firm expanded.
Just as a sidenote, we had about 100 people in the firm at the time, but as a sidenote, I did that for about 15 years and went to the firm administration and said, “Gee, you know, this really is getting big. It’s becoming an administrative job, and I’m not really suited that way, technically, as a talent set.” And the firm said, “Great, why don’t you go and practice full time,” which I kept a book the whole time I was doing this anyway, and let me go back and serve clients, and that’s what I’ve done ever since.
[00:02:30]
Denny: You know, Dudley, before we get into kind of the transition part that you are currently experiencing, you obviously have had a lot of experiences over that period of time. Is there one or two just major lessons you learned in your career, or maybe major hurdles that you were able to get through and beyond that really changed your perspective maybe on life, but as well as your career at CLA?
[00:03:01]
Dudley: Well, we would have to go on for about four hours on all those things and maybe two days, but I think the big thing is that we are a client service firm, and we have to serve clients the way they want to be served and not the way we want to serve them all the time, and so we have to keep that in mind all the time, and it’s constantly a battle when I get busy or, you know, I just don’t think about clients all the time sometimes, and the reality is that when somebody calls and they want something, we should present it and give that in the way they want to do it, and also, when we have major opportunities, we’re in the service business, and we have to serve clients the best we can. We’re problem solvers, and we have to serve clients the best we can, and that means understanding what we do here at CLA that can help clients reach their financial needs, and that’s understanding a lot of services, and as we grow, it gets more complex to understand the services, but it’s something we have an obligation because we have to better serve our clients all the time.
[00:04:03]
Denny: And that gets back to creating those opportunities for those clients, and also our people, and I’ve heard that in the Minneapolis office, especially on the tenth floor where we are today, you try to add a little bit of life and a little bit of energy into the staff. Every Tuesday or Thursday night you do a little thing with them, and I think it would be wonderful if people across the firm and across the country, if you wouldn’t mind just sharing something that you’ve done here, and I don’t even know how long it’s been happening, but tell us a little bit about that.
[00:04:39]
Dudley: Well, all of have done it here at the end of the day, but we work Tuesdays and Thursdays later on at night, and so at about 7:30 at night, we do a coin flip game that involves giving some people some money and some other prizes, and it’s really primarily for comradery, and it gets us all together for a few minutes, and we also, at that time, invite a guest from a different service line to explain what they do.
And so we might invite somebody from ISG or somebody from Valuation, just to talk about the different services that we provide, just a short snippet, just so all our people understand what we can do here, and so it’s a lot of fun, and people enjoy it.
[00:05:23]
Denny: Wonderful. Thank you, Dudley. You know, as we think about the succession issue and where you’re headed, but the firm is headed, I’m interested back when it was a 100-person firm, and now we’re over 5,000 people and spread out throughout the country. Is there something that you’ve observed as the firm has grown and expanded that you could maybe from an advisory perspective say, “You know, we had something back when it was a 100-person firm that was really, really good and worked extremely well, and maybe as the firm has grown, maybe we’ve lost that a little bit.”
You’ve talked about the client service and helping the clients, but is there anything else that comes to mind to say, as you depart, you would really advise CLA leadership, all of us here at CLA, to keep something in mind?
[00:06:20]
Dudley: So two things that I’ve said my whole career are that I’m privileged to work for the clients that I work with and have been very fortunate that way, but the other thing is I’m equally privileged to work with the people that I work with, and we haven’t lost a client service focus at all, but it is a struggle as you grow to keep the focus on the people you work with, and so that’s either local office or national office, but as we grow, it becomes a little bit harder to do that, and I think that that’s one of the issues when you grow, so it’s up to each one of us to maintain our relationships and look after the folks we work with and treat them as people that are truly part of your family.
[00:07:06]
Denny: I’ve noticed on Yammer lately, the book that’s being read across the country by a fair amount of people, “Everyone Matters,” and I think that’s really the point to it. You know, Dudley, when you’re going through this succession process, you’re obviously dealing with people that you’re transitioning some of the client responsibility to, you’re working with people that you’re transitioning, maybe your network, your referral network and so forth.
You’re in the process of transitioning your knowledge. You’ve done that your entire career, but now it’s probably more formal that you need to transfer some things. Just overall, you know, this isn’t anything that just started now in ’18. I’m sure this started in past years already, but just share with us a little bit on some of the experiences you’re going through in this whole transition process again: clients, referrals, knowledge and so forth.
[00:08:04]
Dudley: So I think, the biggest thing, Denny, is the number one job that we all have is to transition clients and client relationships and the client service mentality to other folks, to younger folks, to give them an opportunity, and it isn’t a last-minute deal or the year you retire deal, although, sometimes it happens that way and that’s pretty unfortunate. So it’s a long-term planning event ahead of time, and that’s the biggest message I want to send.
It isn’t a transition that can be made when you walk out the door. It has to be started well ahead of time, and you have to have good people to transition to, and that’s the other thing. So you have an obligation to find and develop good people under you in order to take the client relationship. It’s interesting because it’s all about feeling, but you’re transferring clients, a lot of times, which is the equivalent of transferring your children to a babysitter.
Well, the babysitter doesn’t always do it the way you do it, and so sometimes that’s frustrating, but at the same time, it’s an opportunity for you to do other things, and it’s also an opportunity for the people you’re transitioning to to develop in, and so it’s a great thing. It’s how this organization was built. It’s critical for this organization to make these transitions, mostly from the aspect of continuing to serve the clients.
[00:09:30]
Denny: You know, Dudley, in this succession issue, succession is obviously something that for our 5,000 some people, they may have to transition clients eventually as they progress throughout their career, but we have around 300 people in the firm that have signed a partnership agreement. That partnership agreement indicates that you will retire at age 62, and while it’s part of the partnership agreement, it’s more than just a regulatory or a technical part.
It’s part of our culture, and it’s part of who we are. When you think of that from a culture perspective, you’ve seen people go well ahead of you over you over the past years. You’re seeing some people more your age and obviously, all of us that are younger than you will go through the same thing if we sign that partnership agreement. Can you talk a little bit about that philosophy?
It’s been around for a long time, and it’s baked into the firm, but for all of our people. So the majority of our people have not signed such a partnership agreement. Why is this important beyond just those that signed that agreement? Why is that an important piece for the firm?
[00:10:48]
Dudley: Well, Denny, it’s a good question, and I was one of the people that voted on the original… originally our retirement date was 65, and we advanced it to 62 about 25 years ago, and I was one of the partners that voted for that, and it was all because the opportunity for people to transition their lives personally to go off to do something else, and also to transition their client relationships to the younger… younger organization that would succeed them, and it’s still a valid and good thing because this is all about client service, at the end of the day, and we have to continue to develop people, and make good careers for them, and that’s for client service people.
So there’s a whole lot of other people in this organization today that aren’t facing… that aren’t direct client service, but everybody’s important to the ultimate result of serving our clients because we can’t do it without everybody, and that goes to even their individual jobs. I mean, to find somebody to transition into their job or be willing to transition their responsibility to somebody else inside this organization, it has to happen at all levels for everybody.
[00:12:04]
Denny: So as you go through this process, I’m sure there’s been some difficult times already even though we still have ten months or so before actually the end of ’18. What has been, maybe, the most difficult thing to date, or something that you’ve already recognized the firm, be that leadership, management, whatever, could do a better job to help this whole succession idea and transition process?
[00:12:34]
Dudley: So the hardest thing by far that I underestimated, for those of us that have long client relationships, I’ve had clients that I’ve served for 35 years, and what’s happened is you build a strong relationship with those folks, and it’s difficult sometimes to talk to them about your retirement because how they feel is like you’re breaking up with them… you’re breaking up with the relationship.
Now, you want to continue the relationship, but a lot of times, what happens, as a practical matter, these aren’t folks you’re eating with and going out and socializing with, you know them in the context of a business relationship, but you get deeply in your life, so I think one of the things I’d impart on all people that have direct client service is that it’s no different to a lot of these people when they’re losing a relationship like that or you’re actually going on with the relationship, CPA’s have a lot of power in relationships in total.
People trust us immensely, and so when they feel that trust… that relationship has moved on… it’s very difficult for them, and it’s very painful. And so as a consequence, that’s why this transition’s so important to help alleviate any fear or anxiety somebody has, and the hardest part is I had four… I have ongoing relationships with clients that I’m telling that I’m transitioning, and I’m pretty much all through them now, but some of them react pretty harshly, and some of them begin to cry, and overall, everybody’s happy for me and for the organization, but they think about themselves too in this whole thing, and we have to remember, it’s just like if you lost your doctor or you lost anybody else that’s important in your life, that’s how somebody feels on the other side of this.
[00:14:28]
Denny: Because of those feelings, Dudley, it’s an easy argument to raise to say, “Well, then why don’t you just get rid of that age 62 requirement?” and it comes back to you have to decide what’s most important as an organization, so there’s other firms that have age 65. There’s other firms that don’t have a retirement age, although, most firms do have a retirement age, so most people buy in… most firms buy into the fact that ultimately, it’s a good thing.
But this really needs to then be part of the culture of the firm because there can be arguments raised as to why would you require this, and I guess, one of the things most people in the firm have heard me say, when I get tested maybe by saying, “Denny, you don’t understand that age 62 isn’t as old as it used to be,” and my reaction is, “I fully understand that, however, age 35 isn’t any younger than it used to be.
And to your point, our people are looking for these opportunities, and they need to know if we’re gonna be a career building firm that we are really behind that, and all of our policies, and procedures, and really the partnership agreement itself supports that in every way. You transition to people. You say you’re through a lot of that already, and so speak to some of the people that maybe you’re transitioning to, and we’re experiencing this, obviously, across the firm.
What have you noticed, or what advice might you give them to help them actually step up and help this transition work better, understand it better, maybe some of those feelings that the clients have, whatever it might be, what would be your advice to them for what you’ve experienced?
[00:16:15]
Dudley: Well, I think everybody I’ve transitioned to has done an excellent job, and most people have some experience with a client, but what I’d say is, as long as the person here is… as long as somebody’s here that’s doing the transitioning, it’s good to touch base with that person about, “How should I contact a client?” or “What should I say?” or ask about billing and things like that, because as long as the person that has the relationship, or had the relationship historically is around, it’s good to ask them about how to deal with a client and how to minimize any frustration in the client service, and I think people tend to take the client and run with it and serve it how they want to serve it, which is great.
I mean, that’s a tremendous thing. Everybody stepped up in the breach, and it’s been wonderful, and there’s still a coaching aspect that’s left that people could rely on.
[00:17:10]
Denny: You know, Dudley, because you’re willing to do this as well, I do want to ask you, and I think all of the CLA people would be interested, let’s talk about January first of 2019. You’ve made your way through the transition, obviously. You’re now at that retirement point from CLA.
What has been your thoughts, either personally as to what’s gonna keep you busy, and just what’s your mindset, really, as you head into that stage of your career? We’re talking about being a career building firm. Well, that career doesn’t just suddenly end when somebody retires from CLA, but as you put yourself, because it’s coming soon, when you put yourself into that perspective, what thoughts do you have that might be helpful to share?
[00:17:55]
Dudley: So, Denny, I think everybody should have a plan, and, quite frankly, I don’t. So I’ve spent a lot of time in this business over the years, and I’ve loved every day of it, so I really haven’t thought what the next phase is. The hardest part in the year of transition is in my most important job, and this is the hardest thing I’ve ever done, is making the transitions. So I’m 100% focused on making good transitions for our clients, and I’m pretty confident that things will appear to me to indicate the next phase of what’s gonna happen, although, you know there’s a probably some charitable work in my future and some other things, but I’m absolutely not worried about it, so, but I think if you do all the right things all along, I mean, only good things will happen to you, ultimately.
[00:18:43]
Denny: And again, just for all of you in the CLA family, when somebody makes a transition like this, sometimes we get questions as to what can they and what can they not do from a partnership perspective, and very simply stated, we allow our retiring owners really a lot of flexibility.
They can go work for a client if they choose to do so. There is no non-compete. In other words, if they so choose, they could actually continue to work in public accounting or in the consulting area, or the outsourcing, or the wealth advisory, whatever area they’re in. The only really restriction is that they no longer serve our clients, and they do not solicit our clients or our people in that process, and really, that’s the only restriction, which again supports, probably, that age 62 of being able to say it makes sense for everybody in that regard.
Maybe the last question, Dudley, purely from how the firm has managed this, communicated, I’m looking for advice now, not for the firm but probably for Denny. Is there something that we could all do better or differently as we go forward to help this communication process to maybe prepare the firm better, to do it more consistently? Any advice for Denny that you might have.
[00:20:10]
Dudley: I mean, I think that the best advice for everybody is start the process early because we’re in the client service business, and ultimately, the client deserves the best transition and continuous service that we can offer, and so we tend to say hold on to clients as long as we possibly can because we have these deep relationships with these people, and actually, ultimately, we should be transitioning sooner than later because we want to service the clients better, and it we keep that in mind, we’re better off.
But I would like to say something else, Denny, since you gave me the microphone, is that every day I’ve been blessed for the last 33 years to come to work, and what I’ll tell everybody else is that everybody is part of history. We’re the eighth largest CPA firm in the country, but we’re the only CPA firm that’s gotten this big based on serving privately held clients and their owners.
And so that itself is the greatest story in the history of public accounting, at this point, and every day, as we continue, that we’re all part of that history which we all have to honor, and one of the ways to honor this is making good transitions and serving our clients.
[00:21:25]
Denny: Well, Dudley, thank you. I want to thank you personally. I want to thank you on behalf of the board, the firm. As you’ve gone through this transition process, it really is an example for everyone that needs to go through it. Most of our owners do a tremendous job at this. We do have some problems, and we have to continue to work on those, but the people really do have the same philosophy that I think you have, Dudley. You’ve just been a great example of it. So thank you again on behalf of the executive team. You’ve had a wonderful career here, and we all wish you the best of luck as you continue through your career. Thank you, Dudley.
Denny is the chief executive officer of CLA. As he goes about his duties related to the oversight of CLA’s direction, operations, expansion, and strategy, he is also an enthusiastic ambassador for the CLA Promise. He is fully committed to the firm’s position as a professional services firm that delivers integrated wealth advisory, outsourcing, and audit, tax, and consulting capabilities to help our clients succeed professionally and personally.
Thanks for doing this! An interesting and informative conversation affirming our succession mindset!