Some Q & A on Section 199A

We have gotten multiple comments on the blog over the last few weeks on Section 199A. I am using today’s blog post as a simple Q & A in answering some of these comments.

I assume that we would limit the amount we reduce QBI by to the amount we are allowed to deduct against taxable income. Meaning, I would not create a QBI loss carry-forward by deducting the full amount of self- employed health insurance paid even if I was limited in what I can deduct when calculating taxable income.

Correct.  QBI is only reduced by the deduction that is allowed on the income tax return.  For example, in the comment, self-employed health insurance is only allowed to the extent that you have business income.  It can only reduce QBI to zero.

If I have 2 “buckets” of farm income – one of grain sold prior to the fiscal year end which makes up 40% and one after the fiscal year end which makes up 60%, I understand I only deduct 60% of the SE tax, but do I also only deduct 60% of the SE health insurance, since the other 40% is allocable to non-qualified income?

Correct, the 40% of SE health insurance before the FYE is not deducted against QBI.

Wondering then if you have a Sch F with coop sales so that part of the ‘F’ is QBI (Qualified Business Income) and the remainder is non-QBI, are you allowed to allocate the SE tax and health insurance deduction and retirement plan contributions between QBI and non-QBI as well?

Correct, as stated in the previous comment answer, you allocate between QBI and non-QBI portions.

Could you comment on how pass-through gain on sale of Section 179 assets will affect QBI and how to report its potential effect on QBI on Schedule K-1? This gain is “technically” unkown by the pass-through as it is determined at the partner or shareholder level based on previous Sec 179 taken by that partner/shareholder on the asset sold. As 1245/ordinary gain, I assume it would increase QBI but would like to verify. Also, how would this potential increase to QBI be reported on Schedule K-1? I understand how to report the information for the 179 pass-through gain but I am not sure how to report the potential increase to QBI from the pass-through gain. Sorry for the long question but appreciate any advice.

This gain from the sale of Section 179 assets will be QBI income (assuming it is from a trade or business asset).  I would put a footnote in the Schedule K-1 indicating that the gain from the sale of these assets may increase QBI if it is determined that there is a gain at the owner level. I also do not reduce QBI for Section 179 shown on Schedule K-1 since we don”t know if the owner can deduct the expense, therefore, I put a footnote indicating that may reduce QBI if allowed at the owner level.

If the co-op 1099s received this year does not show any per unit retains and they do not pass out a DPAD then how do I know as a tax preparer what was done on the co-op side. I have 1099s that show patronage dividends only. Based on that information how do I make adjustments to the Section 199A deduction?

The technical answer is that you need to ask the question of the cooperative.  What is their year-end and how much payments were used in calculating their DPAD for the FYE 2018 tax return under Section 199.

Thanks so much for your blog! Regarding the “grain glitch” and the 9% reduction much has been said about the cooperatives distributing DPAD in December of 2017 or perhaps even in 2018. This has led to much confusion within my firm….what if the cooperative that my client does business with did NOT pass out any DPAD in 2017 or 2018? If that is the case does my client still have three buckets or does he now only have two. Secondly, if he got no DPAD does he still have to reduce the coop sales by 9% or does he in fact now only have ONE BUCKET?

There continues to be confusion on this subject.  It does not matter whether the cooperative passes out DPAD or not.  These receipts before the FYE will be in Bucket # 1 if the cooperative used them in calculating their Section 199 DPAD.

Keep the comments going. We try to respond to each comment in the blog, however, with this being tax season, the response may not be quite as timely.

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  • CliftonLarsonAllen
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Paul Neiffer is a certified public accountant and business advisor specializing in income taxation, accounting services, and succession planning for farmers and agribusiness processors. Paul is a principal with CliftonLarsonAllen in Walla Walla, Washington, as well as a regular speaker at national conferences and contributor at agweb.com. Raised on a farm in central Washington, he has been immersed in the ag industry his entire life, including the last 30 years professionally. Paul and his wife purchase an 180 acre ranch in 2016 and enjoy keeping it full of animals.

Comments

Do you take a percentage of SEHI deduction or 1/2 SE tax against 4797 gains? I’m asking because our software has 4797 gains above the deductible part of SE and SEHI on their worksheet. Or do you just do your bucket calculations for schedule F income, take your percentage of SEHI and 1/2 SE, then figure 4797 qbi independent of the schedule F. In short is their a percentage calculation for those deductions to be done for 4797 gain?

Should schedule F income from direct grain sales to a cooperative (not Patronage Dividend (paid or allocated) nor a per-unit retain allocation) be included in buckets 1 & 2 (as allocable to the cooperative fiscal year) or bucket 3? These aren’t defined as “qualified payments” that I can find in the regulation. So, should they reduce the QBI based on income received prior to the coop fiscal year end and should they be included in the 9% reduction calculation if received after the coop fiscal year end or since they are not classified as “qualified payments” should they be included in with all other farm income?

Again, the key is did the cooperative use these sales and not subtract the payment to the patron in calculating their Section 199 / 199A DPAD. If they did, they are qualified payments. If not, then bucket #3.

My question relates to a specific cooperative; National Grape Co-Op and their allocation credit payments. The allocation credit payments are a non-cash but taxable credit and are based on prior years (ex: 1/2018 series NO0801 credit is comprised of 2015 and 2016 crop). Do you know when non-cash allocation credit amounts were/are used to figure the DPAD or is this a question that should be asked of that particular co-op?

I have a question regarding CCC loans. What I have always done in the past is when they payback the loan I put it on Line 1b and the grain sold in Line 1a. Now that we have Coop 1099s reporting in box 3, I put the grain sales on Line 4 Patronage Income. Would you still put the payback of the CCC loan on 1b and leave a negative amount on line 1c? Or would you just put the payback on the bottom of the Schedule F under Other Expenses? Thank you for your blog and your insight! It is much appreciated!

I would likely put it as a negative on the other income line, similar to a hedging loss. The IRS wants any “negative” sales or cost of goods sold to be in the income section.

Do you think the beneficiary of a Irrv Gift Trust get QBI in this situation:
Dad and two sons (all farming) pay rent to LLC holding farm land. That would be common ownership and dad’s share of the that income comes to him directly on the LLC K-1, QBI info in box 20. The boys shares go first to two Irrv Gift Trusts of which they are the income beneficiaries, so that same QBI flow through to the trust from the LLC. But then to the farming sons, both of whom have common ownership and farm the land? I cannot find anyway to pass the QBI out from Irrv Gift Trusts unless I input it to a new sched E. Do they lose that QBI because it passes through the trusts? Thanks for any insights.

They still should get it. I am assuming the tax software is not up to date yet. Ours is not.

For a 2% shareholder of an S Corp, health insurance is added to the shareholder W-2. If they qualify, a self employed health insurance deduction is then taken at the shareholder level. It seems that we would not need to deduct the SE health insurance deduction from QBID in this instance. What are your thoughts?

Correct. This is part of the reasonable compensation deduction and has already been deducted in arriving at QBI.

If a farmer receives patronage dividends in 2018 from a grain or processing co-op that are attributable to production activities income for a year beginning before 1/1/18 and the co-op is allowed a 199 deduction for that income. Am I right that we need to exclude those divs from income qualifying for Sec 199A? Thanks for all your help!

Correct.

I have a question regarding trust attribution rules–trust owns land. All beneficiaries are siblings or children of deceased siblings. Two of the beneficiaries farm the trust land. The trust receives a share of the crop but does not pay any of the input costs. Under the trust attribution rules would this relationship allow the trust income to qualify as QBI for all beneficiaries or just the two that are farming?

If a coop incurs a loss and, therefore, does not calculate it’s own DPAD, is a farmer then able to use those sales in bucket #2 instead of bucket #1?

Question regarding cash rents paid to a spouse. It is common in our area for the farmer husband to pay the wife cash rent for use of the ground in her name. She is not involved in the farming activity. Assume this is not QBI as she is not part of the common controlled group?

This is QBI. Husband and wife are treated as on taxpayer.

Paul – What are your thoughts on charitable contributions from an S-Corporation. Do the charitable contributions made by the S-Corporation reduce the QBI amount that is passed out to the shareholders of the S-Corporation?

There is no reduction. This is not a business expense.

Would you please provide your thoughts on common ownership and this situation: Mother owns 100% of the land. Mother receives crop-share rent from her two sons who farm the land. Is this common ownership and does the Mother qualify for the 199A QBI deduction?

If a Co-Op lost money and did not have a DPAD to use or pass through, does Bucket #1 still apply? Or would it all move to Bucket #2? Thank you for all your guidance on this blog.

Bucket # 1 still applies if they used the farmer’s payments in calculating the 199 DPAD.

I am trying to understand the reasoning of why the farmer is not allowed to use prior fiscal year sales to the Co-op in computing QBI if the Co-op used those sales in their computation for DPAD. Didn’t the Co-op only get a DPAD on their profit after deducting the cost of the grain purchased from the farmer? If so, it would seem that the entire layer of profit that the farmer realizes on his grain sales to the Co-op has been ignored for no good reason. Please help me understand.

Thank you for all the information. If a COOP had no taxable income and therefore, no DPAD was used by the COOP or passed through. Is Bucket #1 still apply or can we move all the income to Bucket #2.

If the cooperative calculate a DPAD, these sales still count. Just because there is no taxable income, does not remove the category of sale.

With the help of your blogs, I believe I’m understanding how to calculate the Sch F QBI, however my particular software is not allowing me to efile any returns containing 1099PATR forms and state they are waiting on final approval from the IRS regarding the complex QBI worksheets in relation to that form. Is that common among other software companies? I really don’t want to have to hold these beyond March 1st and there is no software override available.